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--- Question on Gout
>Subject: Question on Gout >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) >Date: 6/22/2004 6:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time >Message-id: > >I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering >from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past >year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours. > >However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it >has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride >it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack? > >When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an >attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't >help. > >This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to >help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained >from my foot as I am in extreme pain. > >Please give any and all advice/experience. > >Thanks! > > > > Med Hypotheses 1999 Nov;53(5):407-12 Effect of gradual accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow depletion of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose ingestion and phlebotomy in gout. Johnson S [Medline record in process] Gout affects mostly males over 40 years old and, occasionally, postmenopausal women. This pattern coincides with the pattern of iron accumulation. On the other hand, menstruating women are seldom afflicted by gout, because the monthly blood loss causes them to accumulate iron to a much lesser degree. Gout involves seven aspects: (1) uric acid overproduction from increased purines in the diet; (2) uric acid overproduction from ATP degradation; (3) uric acid overproduction from increased de novo synthesis of purines; (4) uric acid overproduction from increased DNA breakdown from cell damage; (5) decreased uric acid elimination, caused by molybdenum and sulfur binding to copper in the kidneys; (6) precipitation of sodium urate-iron crystals in the joints due to high ferritin and saturated transferrin and low CuZn-SOD and Cu-thionein in the joint; (7) development of inflammation, triggered by tyrosine bonding to the sodium-urate-iron crystals and being transformed by tyrosine kinase. Alcohol and iron greatly affect most of these aspects. Therefore, phlebotomy is suggested as therapy for gout patients, in order to eliminate the accumulated Fe. Furthermore, yearly blood donation is recommended for males with a family history of gout, so as to prevent Fe accumulation and avoid gout. PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote in message news:<20040622095046.23018.00000396@mb-m07.aol.com>... > >Subject: Question on Gout > >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) > >Date: 6/22/2004 6:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time > >Message-id: > > > >I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering > >from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past > >year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours. > > > >However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it > >has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride > >it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack? > > > >When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an > >attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't > >help. > > > >This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to > >help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained > >from my foot as I am in extreme pain. > > > >Please give any and all advice/experience. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Med Hypotheses 1999 Nov;53(5):407-12 > > Effect of gradual accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow depletion > of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose ingestion and phlebotomy in gout. > > Johnson S > > [Medline record in process] > > Gout affects mostly males over 40 years old and, occasionally, > postmenopausal women. This pattern coincides with the pattern of iron > accumulation. On the other hand, menstruating women are seldom > afflicted by gout, because the monthly blood loss causes them to > accumulate iron to a much lesser degree. Gout involves seven aspects: > (1) uric acid overproduction from increased purines in the diet; (2) > uric acid overproduction from ATP degradation; (3) uric acid > overproduction from increased de novo synthesis of purines; (4) uric > acid overproduction from increased DNA breakdown from cell damage; (5) > decreased uric acid elimination, caused by molybdenum and sulfur > binding to copper in the kidneys; (6) precipitation of sodium > urate-iron crystals in the joints due to high ferritin and saturated > transferrin and low CuZn-SOD and Cu-thionein in the joint; (7) > development of inflammation, triggered by tyrosine bonding to the > sodium-urate-iron crystals and being transformed by tyrosine kinase. > Alcohol and iron greatly affect most of these aspects. Therefore, > phlebotomy is suggested as therapy for gout patients, in order to > eliminate the accumulated Fe. Furthermore, yearly blood donation is > recommended for males with a family history of gout, so as to prevent > Fe accumulation and avoid gout. > > PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 > Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, it really did not answer my question. Allow me to be more clear: 1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the side of my foot and back. 2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? Forever? Another five days? A month? 3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal time-frame for having this intense pain? Thanks!
>Subject: Re: Question on Gout >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) >Date: 6/22/2004 2:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time >Message-id: > >However, I am simply wanting to >what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and >worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I >can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal >time-frame for having this intense pain? > Well you should have asked your doctor .. He seems to be adept at telling you there is nothing HE can actually .. DO .. but he should have been able to tell you how long an attack can last .. But in the meantime ... it seems hemodilution .. mentioned in the article / phlebotomy .. IS used for .. pain .. http://tinyurl.com/2g4f5 The rest of the urls' speak to hemodilution in general .. http://tinyurl.com/3ye4k http://tinyurl.com/3dvsv http://tinyurl.com/ythha http://tinyurl.com/2tsmp http://tinyurl.com/2zuk4 http://tinyurl.com/35hhw http://tinyurl.com/2y4s7 http://tinyurl.com/23ljt Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
ironjustice@aol.comdoe (doe) wrote in message news:<20040622095046.23018.00000396@mb-m07.aol.com>... > >Subject: Question on Gout > >From: emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) > >Date: 6/22/2004 6:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time > >Message-id: > > > >I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering > >from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past > >year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours. > > > >However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it > >has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride > >it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack? > > > >When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an > >attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't > >help. > > > >This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to > >help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained > >from my foot as I am in extreme pain. > > > >Please give any and all advice/experience. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Med Hypotheses 1999 Nov;53(5):407-12 > > Effect of gradual accumulation of iron, molybdenum and sulfur, slow depletion > of zinc and copper, ethanol or fructose ingestion and phlebotomy in gout. > > Johnson S > > [Medline record in process] > > Gout affects mostly males over 40 years old and, occasionally, > postmenopausal women. This pattern coincides with the pattern of iron > accumulation. On the other hand, menstruating women are seldom > afflicted by gout, because the monthly blood loss causes them to > accumulate iron to a much lesser degree. Gout involves seven aspects: > (1) uric acid overproduction from increased purines in the diet; (2) > uric acid overproduction from ATP degradation; (3) uric acid > overproduction from increased de novo synthesis of purines; (4) uric > acid overproduction from increased DNA breakdown from cell damage; (5) > decreased uric acid elimination, caused by molybdenum and sulfur > binding to copper in the kidneys; (6) precipitation of sodium > urate-iron crystals in the joints due to high ferritin and saturated > transferrin and low CuZn-SOD and Cu-thionein in the joint; (7) > development of inflammation, triggered by tyrosine bonding to the > sodium-urate-iron crystals and being transformed by tyrosine kinase. > Alcohol and iron greatly affect most of these aspects. Therefore, > phlebotomy is suggested as therapy for gout patients, in order to > eliminate the accumulated Fe. Furthermore, yearly blood donation is > recommended for males with a family history of gout, so as to prevent > Fe accumulation and avoid gout. > > PMID: 10616042, UI: 20081788 > Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, it really did not answer my question. Allow me to be more clear: 1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the side of my foot and back. 2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? Forever? Another five days? A month? 3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal time-frame for having this intense pain? Thanks!
In emailjohnprince@yahoo.com (John Prince) writes: >> > >> >I was diagnosed with gout about six months ago. I've been suffering >> >from it for about a year. I've had about five attacks in that past >> >year, and usually they only lasted about 10-12 hours. >> > >> >However I recently had an "attack" start about FIVE days ago, and it >> >has only gotten worse each day. What do I need to do here? Just ride >> >it out? Is five days a long time to have an attack? >> > >> >When my doctor diagnosed me he told me all I could do is ride out an >> >attack--and he prescribed me Ibuprofen for the pain--which didn't >> >help. >> > >> >This seems odd that there are no anti-flammatory drugs or something to >> >help it go away. I could not even mind having the crystals drained >> >from my foot as I am in extreme pain. >> > >> >Please give any and all advice/experience. >> > >> >Thanks! >> > >> > =========== snip ============== >1. I have had an attack that has lasted five days the pain has moved >around a bit during those five days from the base of my toe to the >side of my foot and back. > Been there, done that. >2. If I sit here and do nothing--how long can I expect this to last? >Forever? Another five days? A month? > I've been able to arrest two major attacks within 24 hours and be close to pain-free within 3 days -- minor joint pain goes on for about two months afterwards. > >3. If I go to the doctor, what can he do for me? I understand all >about the uric acid, how there is medicine out there to lower it, and >medicine to help prevent attacks, etc. However, I am simply wanting to >what I can do, if anything, to help rid myself of this pain now (and >worry about preventing future attacks later). If there is NOTHING I >can do right now but "ride it out" as my doctor said, what is a normal >time-frame for having this intense pain? > >Thanks! I had a couple of very minor attacks over the last couple of years and then bad ones in December and February. Both were real attention-getters and made me serious about avoiding another one. Did well for about three months but fell off the diet wagon last month and had another minor attack. It's that extra beer or Shimp Tempura when I've had fish or a turkey the same week that does me in. I'm getting better at sensing my body. In my bod, increasing lower back pain is the signal to clean up my diet and drinking act. Look for a signal of your own. Maybe there's nothing new down below but the following should help within a couple of days (decreased pain will linger for a couple of weeks though): 1. During any attack, increase your water intake beyond 3 quarts per day. (Minimum of 1/2 ounce of drinking water per pound of body weight in each 24 hours.) 2. Place a moist compress on the joint every hour. Alternate cold to help with pain and warm to help get the crystals back into solution (not too effective but anything is a step in the right direction. If it's a joint in the legs or feet, use a cane to keep weight off the joint.) 3. Avoid aspirin or Tylenol -- use Ibuprophen only if it helps with the pain. When it doesn't help, it's probably worth avoiding. (Aspirin, Tylenol, alcohol and most alkaloid drugs slow down the elimination of Uric Acid.) 4. A lot of people report that eating sour chrerries helps -- 1/2 pound of fresh cherries for a day or two. Or, a can of Musselman's unsweetened sour pitted cherries. I have tried the 'cherry cure'--may have helped but, they are sour enough to give one something else to think about. 5. Diet: Stop any weight-loss diet until the attack is over. Stop booze. Stop purine producing foods (beans, meat, fish & foul) until you've got the attack arrested. Get protein from no-fat dairy or eggs. Avoid fat. Avoid fish and any game. Eat/drink 'alkaline-ash' foods (Orange juice, lemon juice, bananas, avocados, most veggies except spinach & cauliflower.) 6. Unless your doctor says otherwise, stop diuretics or any laxative or purgative colon therapy that will dehydrate your body. Increase your fiber intake. Some gout victims swear by a large garlic-fennel seed enema though and that may help. I tried it for both major attacks--don't know if it helped but I did smell of garlic for a couple of days. 7. I've got a buddy that swears by taking a potassium pill and drinking a couple of quarts of water while sitting in a sauna for an hour. Have never tried that one. 8. If you can't arrest an attack, see your doctor and ask about short term Colchicine. I've not gone this route. My doctor says it isn't pleasant--they keep increasing the dose until it works or the vomiting becomes too severe! Second, once you're over the attack, you should be able to control things with a sensible diet. A couple of large glasses of milk each day & 2-3 quarts of water. Learn to like 1.5% fat Cottage Cheese & veggies. Avoid fish and cold cuts. Eat the purine foods in moderation--count servings of beef, chicken and pork each week and stay within an allowance that works. If this doesn't do it you should ask your doctor to place you on daily Allopurinol. I think some of the diet info for gout victims is a bit extreme and has been influenced by the anti-purine folks (who have issues with other diseases.) I'm really feeling my own way on this stuff. Since I'm a third time victim, in the last six months I'm no expert in living without an attack. Hope this helps....Mike 1 2 Next » Related Discussion: TAHITIAN NONI Juice (1 posts) FDA announces H. Stone...wrong all along (4 posts) Re: Aspartame (Equal) and Diabetes... (6 posts) Preventing Microalbuminuria in Type 2 Diabetes (1 posts) Top Discussions From Our Archives Did we evolve to die? 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